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	<title>Comments on: Privilege even in veganism</title>
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	<description>so you think you don't have any</description>
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		<title>By: GardenGoblin</title>
		<link>http://whatprivilege.com/privilege-even-in-veganism/comment-page-1/#comment-1882</link>
		<dc:creator>GardenGoblin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Jan 2011 21:49:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://whatprivilege.com/?p=215#comment-1882</guid>
		<description>I just had a former customer call me up and inquire if we can return to our old arrangement now that she has moved back.  She has an autistic son, and his difficulties are severely impacted by his diet.  He has a few allergies and a large number of sensitivities.  For starters, anything washed with soap can trigger a melt down.  

His sensitivities also include most processed foods.  Additionally, he has issues with a lot of types of beans.  Corn is also an issue, including HFCS.  Note: I am not privy to his actual diagnoses, I just know that a lot of his diet was worked out trial and error with his doctor overseeing.

For protein, he gets eggs and chicken.  I kept the chickens on a carefully controlled diet (which, by the way, they absolutely LOVE) of meal worms, grains, and greens.  The eggs they lay he can eat without triggering any of his sensitivities.  I stagger some meat birds in with these chickens on that diet so there is one ready to slaughter each week.  I process the birds using only boiling water for sanitation and they are generally in her freezer within an hour of their last cluck.

And best of all, in his mind, he gets to come pet &#039;his&#039; chickens and collect the eggs himself on the weekends.  Since she bought a house and they are outside the city limits, in the spring I&#039;m going to help her put up a 4-chicken coop and set up a meal worm farm.  I&#039;ll put fertile eggs in the incubator come March-ish from my easter-egg layers and he&#039;ll get to come by to observe the development and hatch.  

There will be four happy and probably spoiled chickens and one little boy who can have his favorite breakfast without it sending him into a week long series of melt downs.  Egg and goat-cheese on gluten-free bread means he&#039;ll be able to actually hold conversations.  With the chickens he can join 4H and have some socialization outside of his special needs classes.

Pet, food, and hobby.  Chickens are AWESOME!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I just had a former customer call me up and inquire if we can return to our old arrangement now that she has moved back.  She has an autistic son, and his difficulties are severely impacted by his diet.  He has a few allergies and a large number of sensitivities.  For starters, anything washed with soap can trigger a melt down.  </p>
<p>His sensitivities also include most processed foods.  Additionally, he has issues with a lot of types of beans.  Corn is also an issue, including HFCS.  Note: I am not privy to his actual diagnoses, I just know that a lot of his diet was worked out trial and error with his doctor overseeing.</p>
<p>For protein, he gets eggs and chicken.  I kept the chickens on a carefully controlled diet (which, by the way, they absolutely LOVE) of meal worms, grains, and greens.  The eggs they lay he can eat without triggering any of his sensitivities.  I stagger some meat birds in with these chickens on that diet so there is one ready to slaughter each week.  I process the birds using only boiling water for sanitation and they are generally in her freezer within an hour of their last cluck.</p>
<p>And best of all, in his mind, he gets to come pet &#8216;his&#8217; chickens and collect the eggs himself on the weekends.  Since she bought a house and they are outside the city limits, in the spring I&#8217;m going to help her put up a 4-chicken coop and set up a meal worm farm.  I&#8217;ll put fertile eggs in the incubator come March-ish from my easter-egg layers and he&#8217;ll get to come by to observe the development and hatch.  </p>
<p>There will be four happy and probably spoiled chickens and one little boy who can have his favorite breakfast without it sending him into a week long series of melt downs.  Egg and goat-cheese on gluten-free bread means he&#8217;ll be able to actually hold conversations.  With the chickens he can join 4H and have some socialization outside of his special needs classes.</p>
<p>Pet, food, and hobby.  Chickens are AWESOME!</p>
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		<title>By: Attackfish</title>
		<link>http://whatprivilege.com/privilege-even-in-veganism/comment-page-1/#comment-1880</link>
		<dc:creator>Attackfish</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Dec 2010 04:06:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://whatprivilege.com/?p=215#comment-1880</guid>
		<description>*holds meat eating hand up high*  Yes, but a) would they be eating industrialized farmed corn that destroys soil, and the water table and b) actually, I have a feeling most of them would die instead due to starvation.  I know that undoing the meat industry in this country would absolutely not be animal friendly.  I have issues with the meat industry in the way they are not for the most part concerned with humane treatment and ecological sensitivity, and corn feed makes the meat less nutritious, but I am not a vegetarian, and I don&#039;t want to see an end to it.  I was bringing it up  because the argument was annoying me in its ease of countering.  I like to point out flaws in arguments of the sides of issues I agree with before opponents can, and then claim the whole argument is bunk.  Which it&#039;s not.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>*holds meat eating hand up high*  Yes, but a) would they be eating industrialized farmed corn that destroys soil, and the water table and b) actually, I have a feeling most of them would die instead due to starvation.  I know that undoing the meat industry in this country would absolutely not be animal friendly.  I have issues with the meat industry in the way they are not for the most part concerned with humane treatment and ecological sensitivity, and corn feed makes the meat less nutritious, but I am not a vegetarian, and I don&#8217;t want to see an end to it.  I was bringing it up  because the argument was annoying me in its ease of countering.  I like to point out flaws in arguments of the sides of issues I agree with before opponents can, and then claim the whole argument is bunk.  Which it&#8217;s not.</p>
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		<title>By: Jennifer Kesler</title>
		<link>http://whatprivilege.com/privilege-even-in-veganism/comment-page-1/#comment-1879</link>
		<dc:creator>Jennifer Kesler</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Dec 2010 01:23:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://whatprivilege.com/?p=215#comment-1879</guid>
		<description>Additionally, the animals WILL EAT EACH OTHER because that&#039;s what meat-eating animals do. It&#039;s part of how nature is designed to work. Certainly, we need to consider how much meat we&#039;re eating, and how we&#039;re treating the animals we eat, and what kind of life they have before becoming food. And I&#039;d love it if our primary method of body disposal for humans was to leave the remains out for the carrion critters.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Additionally, the animals WILL EAT EACH OTHER because that&#8217;s what meat-eating animals do. It&#8217;s part of how nature is designed to work. Certainly, we need to consider how much meat we&#8217;re eating, and how we&#8217;re treating the animals we eat, and what kind of life they have before becoming food. And I&#8217;d love it if our primary method of body disposal for humans was to leave the remains out for the carrion critters.</p>
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		<title>By: GardenGoblin</title>
		<link>http://whatprivilege.com/privilege-even-in-veganism/comment-page-1/#comment-1878</link>
		<dc:creator>GardenGoblin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 29 Dec 2010 16:29:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://whatprivilege.com/?p=215#comment-1878</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m already a slave to the chicken overlords.  There are days when I get up at dawn to trudge through two feet of newly fallen snow and spend half an hour in below 0F conditions digging through a drift by the coop door all so I can bring the birds their morning dose of warm water and refill the mini-duck pond.

And the little boogers haven&#039;t laid me an egg in a month.

Note:  We also grow a lot of crops to create the terrible corn-based bio-fuel.  Soooooooo many better options out there for fuel than corn, but noooooo, we can&#039;t use those, that would be silly.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m already a slave to the chicken overlords.  There are days when I get up at dawn to trudge through two feet of newly fallen snow and spend half an hour in below 0F conditions digging through a drift by the coop door all so I can bring the birds their morning dose of warm water and refill the mini-duck pond.</p>
<p>And the little boogers haven&#8217;t laid me an egg in a month.</p>
<p>Note:  We also grow a lot of crops to create the terrible corn-based bio-fuel.  Soooooooo many better options out there for fuel than corn, but noooooo, we can&#8217;t use those, that would be silly.</p>
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		<title>By: Casey</title>
		<link>http://whatprivilege.com/privilege-even-in-veganism/comment-page-1/#comment-1876</link>
		<dc:creator>Casey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 29 Dec 2010 09:24:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://whatprivilege.com/?p=215#comment-1876</guid>
		<description>Yeah, things ended up blowing over (if you read my comment to Gategrrl), and I also forgot to clarify that he&#039;s well aware of how damaging crop land IS, and that he just wants us all to live in eco-friendly shamanic-pagan-hippie covens and grow our own little victory gardens, which in itself can be construed as a naive privileged dream, considering how (as Jennifer stated upthread), some people just aren&#039;t able to grow their own food for whatever reason.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yeah, things ended up blowing over (if you read my comment to Gategrrl), and I also forgot to clarify that he&#8217;s well aware of how damaging crop land IS, and that he just wants us all to live in eco-friendly shamanic-pagan-hippie covens and grow our own little victory gardens, which in itself can be construed as a naive privileged dream, considering how (as Jennifer stated upthread), some people just aren&#8217;t able to grow their own food for whatever reason.</p>
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		<title>By: Youll_Never_Guess</title>
		<link>http://whatprivilege.com/privilege-even-in-veganism/comment-page-1/#comment-1874</link>
		<dc:creator>Youll_Never_Guess</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 29 Dec 2010 05:34:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://whatprivilege.com/?p=215#comment-1874</guid>
		<description>Attackfish: If we stopped eating them, do you think they&#039;d stop eating our food? Face it, if we don&#039;t breed them, they will still breed themselves. If we don&#039;t eat them, we&#039;ll still reduce their numbers big time (kill them off so they don&#039;t &quot;threaten&quot; our farms, land, and children) and nature will also have a cruel way of knocking them off. People choosing to not eat them, is not enough to help them. If you really care about the animals, then protections and options need to be in place before people stop eating them. Otherwise they will go the way of the moose, wolf, wild horse, buffalo, etc.: Reduced in numbers to the point of near extinction, because we don&#039;t need them anymore.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Attackfish: If we stopped eating them, do you think they&#8217;d stop eating our food? Face it, if we don&#8217;t breed them, they will still breed themselves. If we don&#8217;t eat them, we&#8217;ll still reduce their numbers big time (kill them off so they don&#8217;t &#8220;threaten&#8221; our farms, land, and children) and nature will also have a cruel way of knocking them off. People choosing to not eat them, is not enough to help them. If you really care about the animals, then protections and options need to be in place before people stop eating them. Otherwise they will go the way of the moose, wolf, wild horse, buffalo, etc.: Reduced in numbers to the point of near extinction, because we don&#8217;t need them anymore.</p>
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		<title>By: Attackfish</title>
		<link>http://whatprivilege.com/privilege-even-in-veganism/comment-page-1/#comment-1873</link>
		<dc:creator>Attackfish</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 29 Dec 2010 03:09:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://whatprivilege.com/?p=215#comment-1873</guid>
		<description>before someone else brings this up as a reason to shoot down everybody&#039;s argument, in the modern industrialized farms of the wealthy west, we grow crops to feed the animals, who in the case of cattle, consume ten calories to every calorie of food they provide on average, so the cropland argument does not fly.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>before someone else brings this up as a reason to shoot down everybody&#8217;s argument, in the modern industrialized farms of the wealthy west, we grow crops to feed the animals, who in the case of cattle, consume ten calories to every calorie of food they provide on average, so the cropland argument does not fly.</p>
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		<title>By: Jennifer Kesler</title>
		<link>http://whatprivilege.com/privilege-even-in-veganism/comment-page-1/#comment-1872</link>
		<dc:creator>Jennifer Kesler</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 29 Dec 2010 03:02:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://whatprivilege.com/?p=215#comment-1872</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m not sure which is better: elephant buses, or New Chicken Overlords. :D

I think Gategrrl had a good idea with &quot;agree to disagree&quot; and I also like what Cinnabar suggests about gently reminding him that his position is inconsistent and therefore difficult for you to debate. I have friends where I have just plain banned a certain topic - religion, usually. Because I really don&#039;t want to disrespect their beliefs, but OTOH, I don&#039;t want to hear what I consider to be misogynistic lies and sociopath-benefiting fantasies.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m not sure which is better: elephant buses, or New Chicken Overlords. <img src='http://whatprivilege.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_biggrin.gif' alt=':D' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>I think Gategrrl had a good idea with &#8220;agree to disagree&#8221; and I also like what Cinnabar suggests about gently reminding him that his position is inconsistent and therefore difficult for you to debate. I have friends where I have just plain banned a certain topic &#8211; religion, usually. Because I really don&#8217;t want to disrespect their beliefs, but OTOH, I don&#8217;t want to hear what I consider to be misogynistic lies and sociopath-benefiting fantasies.</p>
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		<title>By: Casey</title>
		<link>http://whatprivilege.com/privilege-even-in-veganism/comment-page-1/#comment-1871</link>
		<dc:creator>Casey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Dec 2010 22:02:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://whatprivilege.com/?p=215#comment-1871</guid>
		<description>Well by the time he finally got back home to talk, I ended up messaging HIM first to complain about some HORRENDOUSLY OBVIOUS white privilege that was displayed by a (somewhat civil) wrestling forum I frequent, he responded in turn with a story of male entitlement on a &quot;foreigners living in Sweden&quot; forum HE frequents where a bunch of American men were complaining about how they couldn&#039;t hook up with DEM SWEDISH FEMALES because they didn&#039;t respond to their macho bravado. It&#039;s surprising how volatile the politics of meat can get, because (as I&#039;ve stated before) when we discuss ANYTHING ELSE pertaining to social justice/equality movements we&#039;re of a like mind on the subject and everything&#039;s hunky-dory! :D ;) :P</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well by the time he finally got back home to talk, I ended up messaging HIM first to complain about some HORRENDOUSLY OBVIOUS white privilege that was displayed by a (somewhat civil) wrestling forum I frequent, he responded in turn with a story of male entitlement on a &#8220;foreigners living in Sweden&#8221; forum HE frequents where a bunch of American men were complaining about how they couldn&#8217;t hook up with DEM SWEDISH FEMALES because they didn&#8217;t respond to their macho bravado. It&#8217;s surprising how volatile the politics of meat can get, because (as I&#8217;ve stated before) when we discuss ANYTHING ELSE pertaining to social justice/equality movements we&#8217;re of a like mind on the subject and everything&#8217;s hunky-dory! <img src='http://whatprivilege.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_biggrin.gif' alt=':D' class='wp-smiley' />  <img src='http://whatprivilege.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' />  <img src='http://whatprivilege.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_razz.gif' alt=':P' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Cinnabar</title>
		<link>http://whatprivilege.com/privilege-even-in-veganism/comment-page-1/#comment-1870</link>
		<dc:creator>Cinnabar</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Dec 2010 17:32:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://whatprivilege.com/?p=215#comment-1870</guid>
		<description>Yeah I do live in India. :D Back in the early days of the internet, I used to tell people that we lived in mud huts, took elephant buses to work, and strapped laptops on our back as we swung through trees. Sadly, that doesn&#039;t work nearly as well anymore. Curse you, Slumdog Millionaire for ruining my fun!!! xD

Anyway, about your friend, it really DOES sound like he got drunk or something when he started spouting off and then the brakes failed and he just couldn&#039;t stop until he crashed into a wall of FAIL. 

I so understand wanting to avoid conflict for fear of losing a friendship. (Conflict avoiders of the world, unite!) The good advice to give here would be that solid friendships (and even not so solid ones) will weather tiny things like this and come out okay. But I totally understand how hard it is to shake off that feeling, so maybe you can just pretend it didn&#039;t happen and carry on like normal next time you talk? xD

And if he does bring it up again and tries to needle you on it, I like GardenGoblin&#039;s point:

&lt;i&gt;Point out that a leading cause of extinction in animals is their habitat being turned into crop land.&lt;/i&gt;

Also, if we all suddenly stopped eating meat, what would happen to all those animals that were bred for consumption? There&#039;s just no space for them all. There would have to be a mass slaughter anyway or we&#039;d probably end up slaves to the New Chicken Overlords. 

And most importantly, what is he doing having pets and eating meat while telling you how bad it is to do the same?? WTF?! If he still tries to get into this with you, remind him of this fact CALMLY and continuously. Like for every point he makes, just say over and over, &quot;Don&#039;t you eat meat and have pets too?&quot;, &quot;Hmmm that sounds interesting, but didn&#039;t you enjoy eating X meat dish the other day?&quot;, &quot;Oh by the way, how is little Fluffy doing?&quot; and so on. He&#039;ll cower under the barrage of your cold, impassable logic! :D</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yeah I do live in India. <img src='http://whatprivilege.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_biggrin.gif' alt=':D' class='wp-smiley' />  Back in the early days of the internet, I used to tell people that we lived in mud huts, took elephant buses to work, and strapped laptops on our back as we swung through trees. Sadly, that doesn&#8217;t work nearly as well anymore. Curse you, Slumdog Millionaire for ruining my fun!!! xD</p>
<p>Anyway, about your friend, it really DOES sound like he got drunk or something when he started spouting off and then the brakes failed and he just couldn&#8217;t stop until he crashed into a wall of FAIL. </p>
<p>I so understand wanting to avoid conflict for fear of losing a friendship. (Conflict avoiders of the world, unite!) The good advice to give here would be that solid friendships (and even not so solid ones) will weather tiny things like this and come out okay. But I totally understand how hard it is to shake off that feeling, so maybe you can just pretend it didn&#8217;t happen and carry on like normal next time you talk? xD</p>
<p>And if he does bring it up again and tries to needle you on it, I like GardenGoblin&#8217;s point:</p>
<p><i>Point out that a leading cause of extinction in animals is their habitat being turned into crop land.</i></p>
<p>Also, if we all suddenly stopped eating meat, what would happen to all those animals that were bred for consumption? There&#8217;s just no space for them all. There would have to be a mass slaughter anyway or we&#8217;d probably end up slaves to the New Chicken Overlords. </p>
<p>And most importantly, what is he doing having pets and eating meat while telling you how bad it is to do the same?? WTF?! If he still tries to get into this with you, remind him of this fact CALMLY and continuously. Like for every point he makes, just say over and over, &#8220;Don&#8217;t you eat meat and have pets too?&#8221;, &#8220;Hmmm that sounds interesting, but didn&#8217;t you enjoy eating X meat dish the other day?&#8221;, &#8220;Oh by the way, how is little Fluffy doing?&#8221; and so on. He&#8217;ll cower under the barrage of your cold, impassable logic! <img src='http://whatprivilege.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_biggrin.gif' alt=':D' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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